Sebastian Gorka America First with Sebastian Gorka
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Yes, Biden surrendered Kabul: EXCLUSIVE Interview with President Trump

Clip of President Trump’s Alabama rally: Do you think that General Patton was woke? I don’t think so. What do you think, Mike? Mike, was he woke? I don’t think so. I don’t think he was too woke. He was the exact opposite. You know what woke means; it means you’re a loser.

SEBASTIAN GORKA: That was President Trump in Alabama at the weekend, at a record-breaking rally. And we are honored to have my former boss with us, here, on our national radio show AMERICA First, across the country.

President Trump, welcome back.

PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP: Thank you very much, Sebastian.

GORKA: Mr. President, let’s start at the beginning. How different was your approach to national security? There was no wokeism under the U.S. military when you were Commander-in-Chief. Talk to our millions of listeners across the country about your plans for Afghanistan, the conditions-based withdrawal, and what we have witnessed, the disaster we’ve witnessed in the last three weeks.

TRUMP: Maybe the greatest, most embarrassing disaster we’ve ever witnessed in our country. The difference was almost…first of all, it was the opposite, it was the exact opposite. We knocked out ISIS. When I took over, ISIS was all over the Middle East. We knocked out 100% of the ISIS caliphate. I noticed now they call it ISIS-K, so you’ll explain that, but we knocked out 100% of the ISIS caliphate. We took out Al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, and you know what else and who else we took out. We took out plenty, and we were in total control, in terms of Kabul and in terms of Afghanistan. They weren’t even close to us.

We were going to get people – because I believe in getting out, 21 years is enough, and we were like a police force over there, and they’ve got to take care of themselves. And as you know better than anybody, I predicted as soon as we leave, they would stop fighting, and they were fighting for a lot of money. They were among the highest-paid soldiers in the world, paid for by the American taxpayer. So that’s exactly what happened.

What we were going to do is get our citizens out, take out other people who deserved to be taken out. Then we were gonna knock the hell out of the bases, but before we did that we were gonna take out all of our military equipment. I said down to the nails and the screws and the bolts, everything out, nice and easily, and then we take out the soldiers, and probably blow up the bases, because why should we give them to somebody else to use? So that was it.

And Bagram, we were going to keep because Bagram is near China, near Iran, and also in Afghanistan, so it covered a lot of territory. So I would’ve kept that. And it’s a great area for exactly what it represents. So, you know, they spent billions and billions of dollars building it, that’s a big Air Force base. So – I think the biggest in the world, actually – so we would’ve kept that. Instead we fled, and there was no reason for it. The soldiers come out last, and the Army, the military comes out last, after the people and after all of the $83 billion worth of the most highly-sophisticated military equipment anywhere in the world, it is a disgrace what’s taken place here, and an embarrassment to our country. This is the greatest embarrassment in the history of our country, there’s never been anything like it.

And we had, I had meetings, through telephone calls, with Abdul. And I explained to Abdul that if any soldiers, any Americans are hurt or anything, these were all conditions. We had a conditions-based deal. And they were living up to them, and if they didn’t we bombed the hell out of them. But they were living up to them, a couple of times they got slow, and we bombed them. And in 18 months we haven’t lost one American soldier, because of that agreement. And if they came, and if they started edging into Kabul, we would’ve sent out the F-18s and knocked the hell out of them, and they would immediately back.

But we really didn’t have to do that. He understood that they were going to be treated more harshly than any country anytime in the history of the world, and he understood that. And we had some very good discussions, some very tough discussions, but they understood that. We would’ve gotten all our Americans out, all of everybody else that we wanted has to be vetted very carefully right now. They’re just coming out by the thousands, and guaranteed there’ll be many terrorists in that group.

And then we were gonna take out the military equipment, and it would’ve been very simple. In fact, when we left, nobody would’ve even known, and then they could’ve continued to fight their civil war, or whatever they’ve been doing for hundreds of years.

GORKA: Mr. President, the lying legacy media is supporting the Biden Administration narrative that this is your plan, this is what you would have done. It is clear, you’ve just communicated you had a conditions-based withdrawal plan, you would’ve kept Bagram. What would you be doing right now if you were the Commander-in-Chief? If one U.S. citizen were hurt in Afghanistan, what would your response be, and how would you use our special forces?

TRUMP: Well, we’re in a much worse position right now than we were when I had it. It was absolutely, we had it so locked down, we would’ve been able to leave so easily, and so, I mean, it would’ve just been a beautiful process. And then the only question was probably you’d bomb the bases, because why should we give those bases to others? So we bomb, we would bomb the hell out of the bases, the various bases, other than Bagram, which we would’ve kept.

But if you think about it, how can it be worse? So now it’s a much more difficult position, because they have thousands of hostages, American hostages. You know, Jimmy Carter had a small number of hostages. Now they have thousands of American hostages, so it’s much different. I would absolutely have a plan, but I don’t want to say what the plan is, because I think it would be inappropriate.

GORKA: But the idea that you would be taking orders from the Taliban like Joe Biden is?

TRUMP: Ridiculous, because I dealt with Abdul and everybody else, and we were totally in charge. And they never would’ve come in, they wouldn’t have even tried to come into Kabul, even though Ghani, I always said he’s a crook, 100% crooked, bad leader, but a crooked guy. And he had the United States Senate wrapped around his finger, that was his only strength, he had Congress wrapped around his finger. That was his only strength, he wasn’t liked, he wasn’t respected, the government was corrupt. And I knew, I always said, I said it to you a couple of times, I said as soon as we are thinking about leaving, he’ll be the first one out the door. And I guess he took, based on what I hear, he took plenty of cash.

GORKA: He did.

TRUMP: Our cash.

GORKA: Since I last saw you in Trump Tower in New York, let’s talk about another connected issue: The situation on the Southern border has escalated, it’s even worse than it was a couple of months ago. Talk to us about what you’re witnessing, and how it is different from what you did for all the American people when you were the Commander-in-Chief.

TRUMP: So when I left, we had the strongest border, Southern border in the history of our country. We had built almost 500 miles of Wall, mostly finished, all we had to do was finish certain areas, could’ve taken a month. And he said he’s not gonna do it, and it’s shocking. But it still helped. And we had the best numbers we’d ever had, and they ought to finish that Wall, it would take a month. And they’ve got to paint the Wall. It doesn’t sound very glamorous, but you paint it or it rusts. And we were all set to start.

And then we had a rigged election, and the numbers, I mean, it’s so ridiculous what happened in that election. That election was totally rigged. It was rigged, it was stolen, it was corrupt, the most we’d ever seen in our country in the history. I mean, more corrupt than most other elections in third-world countries. So, we had a rigged election and things changed, and they took over. And as soon as they took over, they opened up our country to prisoners, to convicts, to drug dealers and drug addicts, and they opened it up to murders and traffickers, human traffickers, mostly women. As soon as they took over, they destroyed it; it took them two months.

Now yesterday we had a big victory…


TRUMP: …in the Supreme Court, with the ‘Stay in Mexico’ – I had everybody staying in Mexico who couldn’t come into the country – but the Stay in Mexico was just upheld. And it was a big, big victory. But, you see it was really a big victory for the country, because what was happening was people were coming in, and they were just allowing them to spread all over the country. Now when you talk about COVID, they weren’t tested, they didn’t wear masks, and they didn’t do vaccinations, these are infected people.

Same thing with all of the people we’re taking out of Afghanistan. So those people are now being spread all over the world, and they’re not tested for COVID, and they don’t have masks, and…I feel very badly for those people, but the whole world is gonna get re-infected.

GORKA: And your reaction…

TRUMP: A lot of decisions.

GORKA: Your assessment of the woman who is meant to be in charge of the Southern border, who, when she’s asked about it, nervously laughs or cackles and says, “Well I haven’t been to Europe yet,” or when she gets off the plane in Asia, Kamala is asked about the situation in Afghanistan, and likewise laughs at the reporter asking questions.

TRUMP: Yeah…

GORKA: Your take on the person who’s supposed to be securing the border?

TRUMP: Well, it’s very sad. And she didn’t want that job, and she basically hasn’t accepted that job, because it would look like she’s not doing anything at the border, he’s not doing anything. We have open borders, where millions of people are pouring through those borders, and I’m not talking thousands or hundreds of thousands. I’m talking about millions and millions of people are coming up through those borders, and they’re coming in from the Middle East as well as Mexico and other places.

GORKA: We’re going to continue our discussion with President Trump, my former boss in the White House, 45th Commander-in-Chief, here on the Salem Radio Network. If you want to continue listening to our discussion, we are video-streaming it at

Mr. President, I have to ask you…we’re very excited, I’ve said publicly here on America First, I’ve said it on numerous interviews on Newsmax and elsewhere that before I saw you recently in New York, I had a 95% certitude that you would be running again. After I saw you I said it is a 99.9% certitude that you’re running.

TRUMP: laughs

GORKA: If you run, as far as I’m concerned, you’re going to win. What is the second Administration going to be like? And as far as I’m concerned, if I may, as a former insider, the key question is going to be personnel. We need to build the bench that helps staff you and doesn’t subvert you. What are your plans, what would the second term look like, and who’s going to build that bench for you, sir?

TRUMP: Well first of all, for your listeners, you did a fantastic job. You were terrified, I deal with you a lot. And I dealt with you after you went out and made a fortune, I hope you’re making a fortune anyway…

GORKA: laughs

TRUMP: …but I think you are anyway, based on your ratings. But I dealt with you a lot, and that’s why I do your show and I don’t do a lot of other shows. I do people I respect, and people that have been fair, and you’ve been, really I congratulate you. But to a very important and a great job that you did, you have a knowledge; I heard the word “strategist” mentioned in the opening, that you were a strategist. And that’s really what Biden needs; he needs somebody to help him, because our country is embarrassed. Our country has never been embarrassed like they are right now.

And the speech in Alabama, where we had a massive crowd. They say 68,000 people showed up, in the rain! It was rain and thunder. And we put up, I put up, I had the idea the morning of, this was Saturday, the morning of, put up the General Patton opening monologue, that he does in the movie Patton…


TRUMP: …which I don’t know if he got the Academy Award, or very close, and I think George C. Scott did get the Academy Award. But we put up the opening monologue. And I said “that is not a woke general, but it’s a general that knows how to win.” And we have guys that are more interested in things that have nothing to do with our military.

It’s really, what’s going on now is crazy, with our whole country, with our whole country.

GORKA: Well you…

TRUMP: What they’re doing now to our country is absolutely frightening.

GORKA: Well, you kind of nailed it. You summarized the reality of the culture war, in those famous lines of the weekend. It’s inspired us; we’ve even got new T-shirts. If you agree with the President, you need to check out “If you’re woke, that means you’re a loser!” We’ve designed them already, you can get them at the

TRUMP: Good!

GORKA: It says, “If you’re woke, you’re a loser!”

TRUMP: laughs

GORKA: And that’s straight from my former boss, President Trump. Mr. Trump, President Trump, can I ask you a very serious question about…look, the people love you. They come out in their tens of thousands. As somebody said on my show, there is nobody since FDR who can move tens of thousands of people with the love that you have, Mr. President. What is your message to those…there are a lot of people out there who voted for you twice, who after last November, have said “That’s it, it’s over, I give up. They’re gonna steal it again.” What do you say to those Americans who have lost hope, Mr. President?

TRUMP: Well first of all, one of the reasons they come out in the kind of numbers, when you have 60, 70, 80,000 people showing up…we did one in Florida that was massive, we did one in Ohio that was incredible. I mean, it’s, there’s never been…there has actually never been anything like this, this whole movement of America First, or you could say Make America Great Again, there are plenty of definitions.

But, there’s never been a movement like this. And they are looking for hope. And you know, what happened in the last election is terrible. So we won two elections, we did better the second time by the way, I don’t know if you know that, Sebastian.


TRUMP: But we got 12 million more votes the second time, we did much better the second time than we did the first time. But when something’s rigged, it’s rigged. And my message to them – we may have to do it a third time. OK, that’s the bottom line. But my message to them is: Keep fighting, keep strong, we’re not gonna let it happen, they’re not gonna take our country away. It’s going to be bigger and better and stronger than ever, but we’re going to have to do something, because we have some very, very sick people. They’re very evil too. We’ve got a lot of evil people. But we’ve got people that I really believe do not love our country.

GORKA: You gave one of…the two most impressive speeches you gave during my time at the White House, as far as I’m concerned, were the very first address to Congress, to the joint session, and then afterwards your Warsaw Speech. I just want to play a very small snippet to remind people of what a Commander-in-Chief looks like, and to ask you how this applies today with the Taliban. This is your first address to the joint session of Congress, and you’re discussing the then-threat of ISIS. Cut 2.

Clip of President Trump’s 2017 address: I directed the Department of Defense to develop a plan to demolish and destroy ISIS, a network of lawless savages that have slaughtered Muslims and Christians and men and women and children of all faiths, and all beliefs. We will work with our allies, including our friends and allies in the Muslim world, to extinguish this vile enemy from our planet.


GORKA: Since then, we have seen very disturbing things, Mr. President. We have a Secretary of Defense, called Lloyd Austin, testifying on Capitol Hill saying he’s going to hunt down enemies inside the armed forces. We’ve got Mark Milley saying that he’s fine with Critical Race Theory; he doesn’t know what it is, but it’s great, and he loves studying “White rage,” because he’s White. How concerned are you, and how tough will it be for you? What plans do you have for your second term to deal with the woke-ification, the politicization of the greatest military the world has ever seen, Mr. President?

TRUMP: Well, when you say the greatest military the world has ever seen…As I said, woke is losers. And I used another word to describe woke, but I won’t use it on your radio show; I can do it at a rally, but I’d rather not use it on your radio show, you know the word I’m talking about.

GORKA: I do.

TRUMP: That’s woke. And take a look at what happened…you talk about the greatest military, but take a look at what happened in Afghanistan. I mean, we beat the Nazis, but look at this. We’re being sent out of Afghanistan, and frankly, the August 31st date is not being lengthened because they’re not allowing him to do it! It’s not because of him, it’s because they’re not allowing him anymore time. Whoever thought this was possible?

So with this woke culture, our military’s gonna be a loser, and the whole country’s gonna be a loser. So the bottom line is we have to change it. And it was all done by an election that was just fraudulent. It was a fraudulent election. And this is how we have it. And, you know, they’re changing the whole culture. We’re becoming a Communist state. Everyone’s being prosecuted, there are prosecutors all over the place, they’re using the Justice Department and local prosecutors at a level that nobody’s seen before. All the things that are happening…this is like a Communist country that’s being run. And it’s a disgrace.

I will tell you, Bill Barr certainly didn’t do this stuff. And, you know, he was…he got a little scared when they started talking, they were going to impeach him. But this is a terrible thing that’s happening to our country. What’s happening to our country is happening at a level that we’ve never seen before. And in addition to that, we’re really losing our military. Because who would think that our military is fleeing Afghanistan? We had it under total control. And I let the leader know, “you will be hit like no country’s ever been hit,” and he fully understood that. He wasn’t gonna do anything. And again, we didn’t lose a soldier in 18 months because of me, because of our agreement. It was a very strong agreement, and if they didn’t fulfill all the conditions, then we’d bomb the hell out of them.

We were in the strongest position, it was not possible for us to lose. And I wanted to get out, because we were there long enough. We’re there 21 years, like a police force, I wanted to get out. And we would’ve gotten out with total dignity, it would’ve actually been a win. It would’ve been a win. Now we’re getting out with the worst loss in the history of our country, in the history of our military.

GORKA: Yesterday, the GOP received a classified briefing behind closed doors from the Pentagon and the intelligence community, Mr. President. Afterwards, a man who is not known for his hyperbole, the chairman of the committee, Mike McCaul, said “we will not be able to get all Americans out by the deadline, and there will be blood on Biden’s hands.” Is there any scenario under your commandership, as the President, that you would have left Americans in Afghanistan?

TRUMP: Zero! Now, some might want to stay there, you have all different kinds of people, and that’s why you have menus in restaurants. People order different things, OK? There’s some people probably, possibly, want to stay there. Even Americans, for whatever reason…

GORKA: But people who wanted to get out, would you have left anybody there who wanted to get out?

TRUMP: No, no, anybody who wanted to get out, they would’ve come out. And they would’ve come out in an orderly manner. It wouldn’t be rushed out, and if you don’t have it by August 31st, we’re going to leave you there. Because once we leave…but, we’re being pushed around by them. Biden is being dictated to by the Taliban, it’s not even possible to believe. And ISIS is tougher than Taliban, and we wiped out, I wiped out 100% of the ISIS caliphate. You know that, you were there.


TRUMP: And by the way, the caliphate was building and building and building at a level that nobody’s seen. Obama and Biden lost total control. I wiped it out. You know, we have great generals in there, but you don’t know of them, they’re not the television generals, they’re the real generals.

GORKA: Is it fair to say, would you use the word “surrender” when it comes to Biden and the Taliban? Is that what he’s doing in Afghanistan today?

TRUMP: A total and complete surrender. I’ve never seen anything like it, for no reason! We had it so powerful, they wouldn’t have done anything until we were gone. Then they could go back to their civil war, but they wouldn’t have had much of one, because I always said Ghani would be gone, everybody would flee. You know, that’s what happened, I mean let’s face it, it’s ridiculous. We paid so much money, we paid them salaries. And they were there to collect a salary; you know that, and so do I, so does everyone.

And I said it’s gonna, once we leave, I said, before we leave, Ghani will be gone. He’ll take cash. You know, everything I said has turned out to be exactly right. But we should leave, there’s no reason…we’re spending $40 billion a year on Afghanistan. $40 billion. Russia’s entire budget is $50 billion. We were spending $40 billion a year on Afghanistan, and obviously when you look at what happened, a lot of people are saying, “oh, the soldiers fought, they fought because they were being paid a lot of money by the U.S. taxpayer.”

GORKA: Just to translate that, it is a huge sum of money. Let’s translate that; it’s $60 million a day. The United States has invested $60 million every single day for 20 years.

TRUMP: It’s a disgrace.

GORKA: It is a disgrace. We’re continuing our discussion with President Trump. Mr. Trump, it is clear that the Left has become radical. This is a party that is socialist, or Communist. They want to destroy this country, not just the Squad, but also the other radical elements. However, it is my contention as somebody who served in the White House, who saw the extent of the Deep State at the highest levels of our U.S. government, that perhaps the greatest threat is the permanent state, is the Deep State. How aggressive will you be in your second term to root out those who don’t believe the American people get to choose their president?

TRUMP: So we had some people in my first term that’ve been there a long time, but they are Deep State, there’s no question about it. Look, I had great people, I had a lot of great people. We rebuilt the military. We rebuilt, can you imagine, a lot of the things I bought for our military have been handed over? $83 billion have been handed over to the Taliban, it’s not even believable that this could happen, by Biden. But we rebuilt the military, we did so many things, we were so good on healthcare, people don’t realize it. We were so good on every aspect, including the fact that we cut taxes more than any other administration in history. We cut regulations, that’s why our jobs were so good. We had more jobs than, we had the greatest economy in history, probably the greatest economy in the history of the world. We had 160 million jobs. We’ve never come close to that over the years, and certainly not even now. But I rebuilt the economy twice, I rebuilt it before COVID, I built it before COVID, and then rebuilt it after COVID.

But, you see, COVID’s coming back. Now, if I were President, and COVID came back, there’d be front-page stories. They don’t even mention it with Biden. But COVID’s coming back, I mean, you look at the numbers, the numbers are, in some cases, worse than they were before, and nobody blames Biden. But if you look at Afghanistan, you look at COVID coming back, you look at many other things, including high taxes, high gasoline prices, the economy is going to be ruined, because it’s all phony, it’s all fake, it’s just pouring money, pouring free money into the economy. You look at what’s going on, we’re gonna have an interesting period of time for the next three or four years, that I can tell you.


TRUMP: Not good.

GORKA: When it comes to COVID, on China, I want to publicly recognize the debt of gratitude I have to you, Mr. President. You said originally that hydroxychloroquine is a game-changer. When I caught COVID, I took it, and I had three days of the sniffles, and that’s how powerful your leadership is. It is sad that that reality’s being denied. Today, today, Biden allegedly has been briefed by the intelligence community on a report that says it is inconclusive where the China virus came from, Wuhan. Your reaction to that unbelievable report being given to Biden?

TRUMP: Well, it came from Wuhan, and it came from China. They don’t even talk about it coming from China. And, you know, they protect China because they’re all making a lot of money out of China. A lot of money, a lot of money. They’re all making money out of China. And, you know, they do the Russia, Russia, Russia thing, that was another hoax; one of the many hoaxes. But no, it’s…China’s a threat. We can get along with China, and we can get along – I liked President Xi until the COVID came. We had a great relationship. Once that came – I call it the China virus – once that came, it was a different kind of a deal. But I always had a good relationship with him, and he treated us with great respect. He’s not treating them with respect. But he treated us with great respect.

GORKA: And the vulnerability of this administration to blackmail or other national security threats, given the existence of the laptops from Hell that we now know actually belong to Biden’s son? How much of a national security threat is that, Mr. President?

TRUMP: Well, they’re very, very vulnerable to threats, because I guess Hunter has at least one or two. Because if you look at the last tape from two weeks ago, that…by the way, the mainstream media doesn’t report. You know, five, six, seven years ago, that would’ve been the biggest story of the year. That laptop where he’s talking to whoever he’s talking to, I don’t know where she came from. But that whole thing is, that is a massive scandal. But they don’t talk about it. It’s not on the mainstream media.

Look, the mainstream media is so dishonest. You have a laptop that…I think maybe I was the first to call it the laptop – now it’s called the laptops – from Hell. There’s unbelievable information that he’s worried about coming out. So it seems like there’s another one, if you listen to that conversation. No, they’re very, very vulnerable, there’s no question about it.

GORKA: Mr. President, I want to thank you on behalf of the 74 million Americans who voted for you. You didn’t have to run for the presidency, you were famous enough, rich enough, you didn’t need this job. You did it, and I want to thank the First Lady as well, for putting up with the disgusting calumny, the attacks for four years, that still continue against you and your whole family. What is your message? We have 3 million listeners, and we have millions of followers on social media, on our video streams. What is your message to the 74 million people who voted for you, and the future of America?

TRUMP: Yeah, and it’s much higher than that number actually, as it’s turning out. Much, much higher.


TRUMP: My message is: Keep the faith, keep praying, keep working, don’t give up, don’t ever give up. We’re gonna bring our country back. We made America great, we’re gonna make it great again and again. Because it’s really, you know, Make America Great Again…now it’s Make America Great Again, Again….


…if you think about it. But, just keep fighting. Keep your spirit going, because the spirit now is greater than I’ve ever seen it, Sebastian. I’ve never seen the spirit as strong as it is right now. And we will end up doing some incredible things in the not-too-distant future.

GORKA: And you’re never giving up…

TRUMP: We’ll save our country.

GORKA: You’re never giving up, are you sir?

TRUMP: Never give up, ever. We can never give up, and we can never let things like happened in Afghanistan happen again. That’s a disgrace, the greatest embarrassment in the history of our country.

GORKA: Thank you, sir, for taking time to share your views and your future plans with all of our millions of listeners here, on the Salem Radio Network, with me, on AMERICA First. God bless you, God bless your family, and please, keep doing what you do.

This interview was originally broadcast on Wednesday, August 25th. You can watch the full interview here.

Sebastian Gorka, PhD., served as Deputy Assistant for Strategy to the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, and is currently a presidential appointee to the National Security Education Board at the Department of Defense. He is the host of  AMERICA First, a nationally-syndicated radio show on the Salem Radio Network, and The Gorka Reality Check, the newest show on the cable news network Newsmax TV. He is the author of the New York Times bestselling book “Defeating Jihad,” and “Why We Fight.” His latest book is “The War for America’s Soul.” You can follow him on Twitter @SebGorka, on Facebook, and on Instagram @sebastian_gorka. AMERICA First is available on the iTunes podcast app, streams live at, and is on the video-sharing platform Rumble. You can contact him here.

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